(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[AGA]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[7200]OT[5x30 byo-yomi]
GN[US Open Round 1 - 2008 US Go Congress - Yongfei Ge (8d) vs Juyong Koh (7d)]PW[Yongfei Ge]PB[Juyong Koh]WR[8d]BR[7d]DT[2008-08-03]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]US[Dennis Wheeler]C[USGO3 [-\]: Welcome to the 2008 US Open, broadcasting live from Portland, Oregon! The Open is being held at the US Go Congress and features one of the strongest fields in North America.  The games are being broadcast by the American Go E-Journal; free go news from around the world, delivered free via email; sign up at www.usgo.org
chunga [8d\]: Go Ju Yong~~
Uberdude [2d\]: didn't he win something recently?
gougou [1d\]: GO JUYONG
USGO3 [-\]: the players are all here... some are still fiddling with the clock settings
gougou [1d\]: hey usgo3: tell juyong that theodore says "hi" and "gumbei"
]RE[W+2.50]
;B[pc]
;W[pp]
;B[cp]C[USGO3 [-\]: only 3 moves in, and now they've both left the table for a quick break
gougou [1d\]: an extremely tricky position
foxchild [15k?\]: indeed...
USGO3 [-\]: Juyong returns, but Yongfei has not yet, so J wanders about the room checking out the other players games
USGO3 [-\]: there are 25 boards here in the strong players room
YangX [4d\]: is there a place where i can see all the pairing and results?
]
;W[dd]
;B[qe]C[gougou [1d\]: Note: everybody is invited to canadian go tournament, 30 aug to 1 sep, in Quebec city. Juoyong will also be there. See details here: http://www.goquebec.org/quebec2008/en/index.php
]
;W[ep]C[foxchild [15k?\]: and play resumes
]
;B[eq]
;W[fq]
;B[dq]
;W[fp]
;B[cn]
;W[mq]C[foxchild [15k?\]: short conflict in the bottom left, but it ends and play resumes elsewhere...
foxchild [15k?\]: i feel the need to commentate
]
;B[qj]
;W[kc]
;B[qq]C[USGO3 [-\]: Yongfei seems almost surprised, and leans forward to ponder the situation
gougou [1d\]: hard to choose direction for white
gougou [1d\]: so then tenuki
Uberdude [2d\]: can't tenuki this
gougou [1d\]: yes true
gougou [1d\]: i guess q3 
Uberdude [2d\]: you could try a sente variation
Uberdude [2d\]: btw, is this b someone who won a recent tournament?
USGO3 [-\]: he reaches for a stone, but then pauses to reconsider again
]
;W[pq]
;B[qp]
;W[qo]
;B[ro]C[gougou [1d\]: i know juyong is a canadian champion from 2000 but not sure if he won more recent stuff
]
;W[qn]
;B[rn]
;W[qm]C[TheCaptain [4d\]: he is a strong Korean Canadian amateur
SLuck [6k\]: omg its thecaptain!
gougou [1d\]: but lived in canada since 2000
USGO3 [-\]: Juyong played in the recent Korean Counsul tournament in Seattle
]
;B[lp]C[USGO3 [-\]: a loud click, and he gets up for a quick break
gougou [1d\]: he's a smoker, needs his fill
chunga [8d\]: M4 loosk pretty good
Uberdude [2d\]: i like b style so far
chunga [8d\]: Ju Yong is a young rising star in Canada
Uberdude [2d\]: textbook get soem points then reduce
chunga [8d\]: I was impressed about his ending game
foxchild [14k?\]: am i wrong, or is a san san in the bottom right? just guessing a bit...
]
;W[lq]C[gougou [1d\]: n3 is in unusual position. Usually played around k3...
touya2004 [1d\]: san-san means 3-3 so you have 4 points on the board called sansan @foxchild
USGO3 [-\]: Yongfei checks his opponent's time, and gets up for a bottle of water
foxchild [14k?\]: got it.
chunga [8d\]: I don't like R6 much, but it might be his style
gougou [1d\]: so far i like black here... but too early to say that black has a lead?
]
;B[jp]
;W[jn]C[chunga [8d\]: I don't know if W can really attack this B
USGO3 [-\]: Yilun Yang and Janice Kim wander around the room checking out the games
Uberdude [2d\]: well, seems only choice
Uberdude [2d\]: to get the territory seems too mice to b
Uberdude [2d\]: m6 is the shape here?
gougou [1d\]: maybe l6?
TheCaptain [4d\]: m6 seems a bit loose to me
]
;B[hp]C[Richdad [5d\]: Chunga: i have the same feeling you do. I wouldnt R6, becuase this whole sequence seems unclear for w. But certainly w has something in mid
Richdad [5d\]: mind*
Uberdude [2d\]: or maybe just get L3 next and live localy
Uberdude [2d\]: that's sure be nice
Richdad [5d\]: i cant help feeling this game is hard for w
]
;W[io]
;B[kq]C[gougou [1d\]: maybe g5 now?
USGO3 [-\]: Welcome to the 2008 US Open, broadcasting live from Portland, Oregon!
jewel [1d\]: g6 or j4?
]
;W[em]
;B[kn]
;W[km]
;B[ln]
;W[qr]
;B[rr]
;W[pr]
;B[rm]
;W[lm]C[Richdad [5d\]: just live now?
Uberdude [2d\]: n6 seems fairly ok
chunga [8d\]: still hard to say who is better
Uberdude [2d\]: maybe not 100%?
Uberdude [2d\]: or m3 maybe?
TheCaptain [4d\]: suddenly w feels better...
]
;B[hr]
;W[gr]C[Uberdude [2d\]: g2 loses over 5 points yose in corner
]
;B[mn]C[Richdad [5d\]: i dont know if h2 is the correct move here.
Uberdude [2d\]: yeah still weakness at j3
]
;W[ql]C[Richdad [5d\]: i think b should get a simpler better result frmo what the initial situation was
]
;B[ho]C[USGO3 [-\]: The Open is being held at the US Go Congress and features one of the strongest fields in North America.
USGO3 [-\]: Yongfei glances quickly at his clock
]
;W[hm]
;B[gm]C[andy8452 [5k\]: usgo3 where can i get the sgf after the game has been finished??
USGO3 [-\]: they will be posted on the AGA website, as well as in the game records of the USGO user accounts
Richdad [5d\]: b aims to cut b
]
;W[gn]
;B[hn]
;W[gl]
;B[im]
;W[hl]C[USGO3 [-\]: http://usgo.org/congress/2008/
]
;B[dm]C[Analysis [1k\]: Go Juyong!
holynec [2k?\]: :-\]
]
;W[do]C[holynec [2k?\]: Thanks USGO3 for relaying.
USGO3 [-\]: Juyong nods his head
Analysis [1k\]: (wait, he can hear me?)
TheCaptain [4d\]: yes, and thx also for the little asides and colour commentary..
]
;B[co]C[Analysis [1k\]: (or he's nodding in respsonse to move?)
USGO3 [-\]: ...in response to the move
Analysis [1k\]: (k sorry :D)
]
;W[dl]C[USGO3 [-\]: Mingjui Jiang and Yilun Yang greet each other cheerfully as the pass each other in the aisle next to our board
Richdad [5d\]: great forcing moves from w
]
;B[en]
;W[dn]
;B[cm]
;W[fm]
;B[ck]C[Uberdude [2d\]: c9 feels a little small
Uberdude [2d\]: given corner alive
]
;W[cf]C[Richdad [5d\]: if w played c8, he would have a huge framework Uber
Uberdude [2d\]: i'd rather approach d16
Richdad [5d\]: c9 is a must
USGO3 [-\]: both players sit very quietly showing little or no emotion
Uberdude [2d\]: i would c9 probably
Uberdude [2d\]: but sometimes the standard move isn't optimal
Uberdude [2d\]: at least worth considering
]
;B[eb]C[Uberdude [2d\]: i suppose L17 is well positioned to make a b double approach less severe
chunga [8d\]: Ju Yong drink a lot last night, I hope he is still ok thou
]
;W[ec]C[TheCaptain [4d\]: probably better...
gougou [1d\]: hahaha
gougou [1d\]: what did he drink
chunga [8d\]: I talked to him 2 am last night, he was still drinking
USGO3 [-\]: I'm only the game recorder, not the bartender
chunga [8d\]: Sake, beer, Seju
]
;B[dc]C[gougou [1d\]: hehe
gougou [1d\]: he's a good drunk
Richdad [5d\]: w need cash, going to follow joseki?
chunga [8d\]: yeah, hope he is ok
Richdad [5d\]: id follow joseki, w gets to play o17 in the end
Richdad [5d\]: if w gives corner away, his only chance is to make territor yin the middle
]
;W[db]
;B[cc]
;W[cb]C[Richdad [5d\]: and with c9 already there, he is amove behind
]
;B[ed]
;W[fc]
;B[cd]
;W[de]
;B[fb]
;W[bb]
;B[gc]C[Uberdude [2d\]: w get big corner here
]
;W[fd]C[Uberdude [2d\]: i like for w
Richdad [5d\]: because of the overall game or the local position?
holynec [2k?\]: but center is more important
gougou [1d\]: i once had a new year party with juoyng and others
gougou [1d\]: we all drunk like crazy
gougou [1d\]: juyong was boasting he can drink the most
gougou [1d\]: Well, i'm not sure about that...
chunga [8d\]: haha, I beat Ju Yong last time
gougou [1d\]: however he certainly can puke the most
Analysis [1k\]: i owe juyong a drink
Uberdude [2d\]: just this local corner sequence
Uberdude [2d\]: espcially with l17
Uberdude [2d\]: w lots fof cash
]
;B[ge]
;W[fe]C[Uberdude [2d\]: and b still uncomfortabl
chunga [8d\]: yes, W is getting more cash
liusasori [2k\]: g16 
chunga [8d\]: I didn't like D17 much
chunga [8d\]: allowing W has more cash 
Richdad [5d\]: neither did i, very unnatural, but it reverts to joseki in the end
]
;B[ff]C[Richdad [5d\]: o17 now?
USGO3 [-\]: Juyong setps out
]
;W[hb]C[USGO3 [-\]: ...and Yongfei steps out
USGO3 [-\]: they each have about !:20+ on the clock
liusasori [2k\]: w mistake ?
liusasori [2k\]: g16 e15 g18 
]
;B[gd]C[Uberdude [2d\]: well, that is the obvious sequence
Uberdude [2d\]: of course w expects it
liusasori [2k\]: e15 g18 o17 ?
]
;W[ee]C[BlackSmurf [2k\]: it does rob b of a base
]
;B[gb]
;W[ic]C[Richdad [5d\]: w got cash and b still not alive in middle of w thickness
Richdad [5d\]: b chose joseki wrong
Richdad [5d\]: still w doenst have a lot of territoryt and black does, so this fight is the key to the game
Uberdude [2d\]: yes d18 onwards seems bad
Richdad [5d\]: if w is able to invade r12, take o17 and c11
Richdad [5d\]: he wins
Uberdude [2d\]: so maybe c9 was bad :p
]
;B[hg]
;W[nc]C[Richdad [5d\]: haha
]
;B[jm]
;W[jl]
;B[il]
;W[ik]
;B[in]
;W[rl]
;B[rs]
;W[qg]
;B[oe]
;W[og]C[Richdad [5d\]: things happening as i said
Richdad [5d\]: only c11 left
Uberdude [2d\]: you know what, i think b omitting c9 is possible
Uberdude [2d\]: say he approach 4-4 and w c9 then live in corner
Uberdude [2d\]: w gets from line 15 to c9 territory
Uberdude [2d\]: but b gets b8 in sente
Uberdude [2d\]: and will likely get n17 too
Istrilyin [1k\]: is white j3 anygood?
]
;B[me]
;W[oj]C[USGO3 [-\]: For latest Congress tourney info, click on http://usgo.org/congress/2008/  Round-by-Round pairings, running crosstabs and more!
]
;B[mb]C[chunga [8d\]: I think B is looking for n18
chunga [8d\]: oh, he did
flyingfox [7d\]: good call
flyingfox [7d\]: haha
]
;W[mc]
;B[nb]
;W[lb]
;B[oc]
;W[ma]
;B[ob]C[chunga [8d\]: I prefer B now
chunga [8d\]: very solid
chunga [8d\]: and Ju Yong's ending game is excellent
]
;W[nf]
;B[ld]
;W[lc]C[liut1rta [3d?\]: question, is it better to give up r10 and attack the top?
]
;B[ne]C[liut1rta [3d?\]: or can black run out first?
flyingfox [7d\]: no clear escape route
]
;W[jb]C[liut1rta [3d?\]: well before p10, it looked like it could run
]
;B[jd]C[liut1rta [3d?\]: but black decided to attack the top
]
;W[kd]
;B[ke]
;W[je]C[chunga [8d\]: oh, m17 seems a little greedy
]
;B[ie]C[Uberdude [2d\]: b only has a gote seki on this though?
USGO3 [-\]: Koh makes a face and shakes his head a bit
TheCaptain [4d\]: after b16 its sente
]
;W[rf]
;B[jf]C[USGO3 [-\]: Juyong slaps the stone down hard
ToughNerd [12k\]: where did w last play
]
;W[ha]C[USGO3 [-\]: Today’s EJ broadcasting team: Chris Garlock (Board 1); Todd Heidenreich (Bd 2); Dennis Wheeler (Bd 3); Richard Dolen (Bd 4); Tom Hodges (Bd 5); Casey Alexander (Bd 6; Matthew Heymering (KGS admin);  Steve Colburn (IT).  Click here to check out what our top players look like: http://usgo.org/congress/2008/openplayers.html
calgacus [?\]: k16 appears to have lost sente
]
;B[ni]C[USGO3 [-\]: another forceful click
]
;W[oi]
;B[bh]
;W[bg]C[USGO3 [-\]: and Yongfei gently responds each time
Dsalsero [?\]: where is the tournament?
USGO3 [-\]: The Open is being held at the US Go Congress and features one of the strongest fields in North America.
Dsalsero [?\]: oh
Dsalsero [?\]: ok tk
USGO3 [-\]: broadcasting live from Portland, Oregon!
]
;B[jk]C[USGO3 [-\]: Juyong gets up for a stretch....
USGO3 [-\]: Yongfei's eyes dart around the board, perhaps counting
]
;W[jj]
;B[kl]
;W[kj]
;B[ij]
;W[hk]
;B[ol]
;W[ok]C[USGO3 [-\]: The games are being broadcast by the American Go E-Journal; free go news from around the world, delivered free via email; sign up at www.usgo.org
gougou [1d\]: is white ahead now?
liut1rta [3d?\]: seems like black is ahead
TheCaptain [4d\]: seems w comfortably ahead..
Uberdude [2d\]: hello oysy
USGO3 [-\]: Yongfei steps out; Juyong twiddles a stone on the table
]
;B[mk]
;W[nh]
;B[re]C[liut1rta [3d?\]: is there komi?
Capsule [3d\]: MEATLOVER!!
USGO3 [-\]: Capsule, is your game over??
gougou [1d\]: i guess the the score is within 5
gougou [1d\]: too close to call
]
;W[se]
;B[sd]
;W[sf]
;B[rd]C[AroundOneD [1d\]: b11?
liut1rta [3d?\]: b10?
]
;W[sm]C[liut1rta [3d?\]: lol
]
;B[mh]C[AroundOneD [1d\]: t7 is slow
bagman [4d\]: but big
bagman [4d\]: like 5 pts reverse sente
AroundOneD [1d\]: j11
AroundOneD [1d\]: is a must
AroundOneD [1d\]: to kill the stone
bagman [4d\]: e2 is huge also
AroundOneD [1d\]: or ctr is too big
gougou [1d\]: i like b10 huge
AroundOneD [1d\]: for b
bagman [4d\]: w is ahead by komi
AroundOneD [1d\]: j11 and g11 to kill
bagman [4d\]: j11 is big i agree
]
;W[ii]C[gougou [1d\]: c11 now?
USGO3 [-\]: Juyong nods his head expectingly
Blockdude [3k\]: y not c12?
bagman [4d\]: how old is juyong?
gougou [1d\]: yes i mean c12
gougou [1d\]: n c11
gougou [1d\]: no c11
gougou [1d\]: because c11 seems better shape
USGO3 [-\]: players pictures: http://usgo.org/congress/2008/openplayers.html
gougou [1d\]: and because prevents a12 sente
]
;B[gi]
;W[gj]
;B[hi]
;W[hj]C[gougou [1d\]: SE says black wins after c11
USGO3 [-\]: the lens falls out of the game recorder's eyeglasses
USGO3 [-\]: someone is off to find a repair kit
liut1rta [3d?\]: black quite ahead
liut1rta [3d?\]: at least in momentum, no?
Tsuijin [1d\]: game was too awesome for the game recorder
gougou [1d\]: let's wait till next move, but ya 
liut1rta [3d?\]: isn't m2 huge?
gougou [1d\]: i'd prefer l2
liut1rta [3d?\]: its black's turn
gougou [1d\]: ya for black
bagman [4d\]: e2 bigger
liut1rta [3d?\]: for black?
bagman [4d\]: yes
AroundOneD [1d\]: c12 is for b
gougou [1d\]: bigger than c11?
liut1rta [3d?\]: just d4
liut1rta [3d?\]: then d1
]
;B[er]C[liut1rta [3d?\]: e2 seems small
bagman [4d\]: ;-)
gougou [1d\]: HAHA
Uberdude [2d\]: e2 is huge
Uberdude [2d\]: reverse sente
]
;W[sn]
;B[rp]
;W[so]
;B[sp]
;W[sl]
;B[sq]C[bagman [4d\]: t7 was unbelieveably huge
liut1rta [3d?\]: black gained 4-5 points in the center and played e2, so i say black is pretty good
gougou [1d\]: but it was white's right, no?
AroundOneD [1d\]: you should say t7and t6
bagman [4d\]: not really cause it was sente for b
Uberdude [2d\]: yes i think s16 may have been a mistak
AroundOneD [1d\]: t6 is sente
AroundOneD [1d\]: t7 is not
bagman [4d\]: for b i meant
gougou [1d\]: t7 was gote for white though...
AroundOneD [1d\]: y
bagman [4d\]: b t8
gougou [1d\]: kinda antisente
Uberdude [2d\]: you mean b t8 instead of s16 right?
bagman [4d\]: yes
]
;W[on]C[AroundOneD [1d\]: b should play t7
Uberdude [2d\]: yes seems the trade there would be good for b
AroundOneD [1d\]: in that sense, you r right
Uberdude [2d\]: if  ignores and s16 and b gets in to r10
AroundOneD [1d\]: t7 is big
Uberdude [2d\]: ah yes t7 rather than t8 to avoid throw in
AroundOneD [1d\]: y, t8
liut1rta [3d?\]: well just o8?
liut1rta [3d?\]: later can r14 q12
]
;B[pg]C[gougou [1d\]: ya i dont like p6
]
;W[ph]
;B[pf]C[AroundOneD [1d\]: q13 is nice one
AroundOneD [1d\]: sente
]
;W[qf]C[gougou [1d\]: oh wow
]
;B[qh]
;W[rh]
;B[qi]
;W[ri]C[gougou [1d\]: so strange
USGO3 [-\]: both players have 51 mins remaining
gougou [1d\]: at the least, b gets 10^10 ko threats
AroundOneD [1d\]: l2 or c12
liut1rta [3d?\]: time to start ko
liut1rta [3d?\]: haha
gougou [1d\]: haha
]
;B[ch]C[AroundOneD [1d\]: j2 for w
]
;W[nm]C[Capsule [3d\]: sorry USGO3 i went to buy some 7-11 nasty tequitos
Capsule [3d\]: and yes, my game has ended.
USGO3 [-\]: win or lose?
Capsule [3d\]: i lost by komi :s
USGO3 [-\]: aww, sorry
Capsule [3d\]: ^_^
liut1rta [3d?\]: o8?
AroundOneD [1d\]: b needs more points 
gougou [1d\]: seems the game is still v close
AroundOneD [1d\]: b can not afford komi now
gougou [1d\]: dunno i think still a cliffhanger
AroundOneD [1d\]: on board, it's about same
gougou [1d\]: remember f2 is black's right
]
;B[nl]C[AroundOneD [1d\]: still close game
USGO3 [-\]: Juyong hesitates as he places this stone
]
;W[mm]
;B[mi]
;W[of]
;B[pe]
;W[dk]
;B[cl]
;W[hs]
;B[ir]C[AroundOneD [1d\]: o5
manestor [7k\]: a12 
]
;W[ah]
;B[ai]
;W[ag]C[manestor [7k\]: i should be 8d
AroundOneD [1d\]: hehe
Blockdude [3k\]: you called 1 move
Blockdude [3k\]: t13?
]
;B[bj]C[manestor [7k\]: i just got here
AroundOneD [1d\]: e11
Blockdude [3k\]: t13 is big
chunga [8d\]: seems like W is a little ahead
gougou [1d\]: k12?
Blockdude [3k\]: nmvm
Istrilyin [1k\]: t13 doesn't work
Blockdude [3k\]: sorry
liut1rta [3d?\]: i think there is something in t12
Blockdude [3k\]: t12 t11 
Istrilyin [1k\]: t12 t11?
Blockdude [3k\]: and black cant do a thing beucahe white is already connected
AroundOneD [1d\]: I'd like to play e11 before a12
gougou [1d\]: d10 looks big for both
liut1rta [3d?\]: so white seems to have superior yose?
AroundOneD [1d\]: it's very likely that b will form some room up there for komi
]
;W[fi]C[chunga [8d\]: a matter of Komi 
AroundOneD [1d\]: y
chunga [8d\]: I think B could do better in the right side in the middle of the game
USGO3 [-\]: Yongfei checks his clock and his opponent's time
USGO3 [-\]: they each have about 40 min left
AroundOneD [1d\]: right side is too big
jsc [14k\]: they is big trouble in the EGR
jsc [14k\]: get'em noknott
Johnny5 [7k\]: Oh, so this is being played in real life right now?
jsc [14k\]: yes it is
jsc [14k\]: in Oregon right?
jsc [14k\]: us go congress
Alenchon [7k\]: yes
Johnny5 [7k\]: that's really cool, I'll just shut up and watch and let more qualified players make comments about the game
]
;B[da]
;W[ca]
;B[bc]
;W[ab]
;B[ea]
;W[ce]
;B[cg]
;W[be]
;B[mp]C[Daemonic [7k\]: looks like b's ahead to me
timetodie [-\]: looks like hes behind
Gresil [8k\]: i counted white ahead by ~6 before the top left 
bulbobulbo: Daemonic look again
calgacus [?\]: Is Feng Yun playing in ING Masters?
Daemonic [7k\]: oh, sry, missed that
Daemonic [7k\]: yeah, w's ahead
fairgo1 [10k\]: hi jsc
]
;W[kr]C[uuffy: lol
AroundOneD [1d\]: feels not good
jsc [14k\]: hi
katori15 [5k\]: has ● won a game in this set yet.  So far it is w+resign
jsc [14k\]: you you type that in???!!!
jsc [14k\]: how you*
]
;B[jr]
;W[lr]C[Daemonic [7k\]: lol
ennuistic [1k\]: black looks pretty good here i think
Blockdude [3k\]: its an alt+# key
Blockdude [3k\]: like
]
;B[go]C[jsc [14k\]: oh
Blockdude [3k\]: alt+3 is a heart ♥
]
;W[fo]
;B[dp]
;W[eo]C[katori15 [5k\]: ☺ alt 1
gogadget [11k\]: ³
Blockdude [3k\]: i dont like smileys
jsc [14k\]: 1
jsc [14k\]: ...
PiQuiz [10k\]: ♂
jsc [14k\]: probabaly doesnt work on windows
katori15 [5k\]: keypad 1
Daemonic [7k\]: ○ is slowly trying to overpower ●
Blockdude [3k\]: å₧ëF8»╚ºn8,╥▲a○╝∞
Daemonic [7k\]: block...
jsc [14k\]: UGH quit teasing me!!!
bulbobulbo: ☺
Blockdude [3k\]: wait, whats the config for the stones?
jsc [14k\]: ☺
KGSPlus [-\]: please keep comments to the game
jsc [14k\]: !!!
jsc [14k\]: yay
jsc [14k\]: awesome!!!
katori15 [5k\]: whivh round is this
katori15 [5k\]: which
KGSPlus [-\]: round 1
BlueMental [13k\]: the title says (US Open Round 1) it might just be true
jsc [14k\]: ╟♀╙
uuffy: u can never trust those lol
katori15 [5k\]: haha yes it does
]
;B[pl]
;W[pk]
;B[mg]C[Tom2 [8k\]: white is ahead with ca. 15p? is that right?
Tom2 [8k\]: i train to count :)
Tom2 [8k\]: 15 including komi
chunga [8d\]: W is a little ahead
scurge [4d\]: i get white +5
Tom2 [8k\]: oh
chunga [8d\]: but hard to catch up for B
Tom2 [8k\]: hm without komi i came about 7+ w
scurge [4d\]: +5 with komi :-/
Tom2 [8k\]: hm
Tom2 [8k\]: ok thanks :)
scurge [4d\]: but the five is more like 7 actualy;)
Tom2 [8k\]: where is my mistake?
Tom2 [8k\]: hm
scurge [4d\]: maybe you forgot some territory:)
Tom2 [8k\]: :)
AroundOneD [1d\]: f12
uuffy: b seems to have better yose potential though
Tom2 [8k\]: oh yes, i forgot something ^^
Tom2 [8k\]: thanks
Tom2 [8k\]: now i see
scurge [4d\]: which one was it?:)
Gresil [8k\]: now i keep getting black +1 minus whatever the komi is
Gresil [8k\]: is it 7.5?
Tom2 [8k\]: well, i totally forgot the k2 group ^^
scurge [4d\]: :D i thought it was this one:p
Tom2 [8k\]: hehe
Tom2 [8k\]: ^^
Tom2 [8k\]: thank you scurge for help
]
;W[qk]C[jsc [14k\]: ☻ coooollll
jsc [14k\]: i got it now
scurge [4d\]: no problem:)
]
;B[oo]C[AroundOneD [1d\]: w has one more liberty than b on the right side
uuffy: ?
uuffy: what r u talking about?
Swordfish7 [5d\]: i thought yongfei ge is canadian
AroundOneD [1d\]: I meant r9 connection
]
;W[po]C[yoyoma [1d\]: I think you're right swordfish
uuffy: that's just a big point
USGO3 [-\]: both YongFei Ge and Juyong Koh are from Canada
]
;B[dj]
;W[ej]C[uuffy: where is this held?
]
;B[di]C[ManWithHat [3k\]: how much time left?
AroundOneD [1d\]: f12 and l12
USGO3 [-\]: I can only see black's clock... he has 28 min left
uurtamo [8k?\]: portland oregon.
ManWithHat [3k\]: ok, thx
Ciovo [5k?\]: i counter about W+6 komi included
]
;W[fh]C[uuffy: only gonna get closer...
]
;B[gg]C[AroundOneD [1d\]: l12
katori15 [5k\]: l13 seems safe
AroundOneD [1d\]: same thing
uuffy: l12 actually makes a point
AroundOneD [1d\]: form room or break it
tempfire: f9!!
ketchup [5k\]: ?
tempfire: oh
tempfire: i see what happened here
AroundOneD [1d\]: l12, w can form room
AroundOneD [1d\]: l13, no room for both
katori15 [5k\]: no l13 fails l13 k12 l12 l11 
Cassis0 [3d\]: close game
Tom2 [8k\]: yes, i think also its close now, black made some points
]
;W[jh]C[AroundOneD [1d\]: l13 may be die
AroundOneD [1d\]: l13, b has k12
katori15 [5k\]: agreed
terrorist [5k\]: Ill assume youothers have counted the score, but to me, it appers that black is wining by a margin big enough for me to see.
ninezero [5k\]: is there any way to watch these games again?
katori15 [5k\]: clone them
Swordfish7 [5d\]: options>view offline
Tom2 [8k\]: yeah, make a lokal copy
Cassis0 [3d\]: maybe you forget komi terrorist
ninezero [5k\]: okay tyvm
terrorist [5k\]: my looking at counting is not accurate enough to care about 5 or 6 points
BlackSmurf [2k\]: 7.5
larske [4k\]: is k18 group already dead?
AroundOneD [1d\]: no
larske [4k\]: l19 to kill?
AroundOneD [1d\]: or w resigned earlier
beit: k player peases do not ask stupid question
Dissi [3k\]: l19 doesn t kill
theremin [1k\]: L19 does not kill
Tom2 [8k\]: L19 k19 and live  i think
BlackSmurf [2k\]: read it larske
BlackSmurf [2k\]: no tom
theremin [1k\]: no
AroundOneD [1d\]: l19 is a help for w
theremin [1k\]: M19
Tom2 [8k\]: oh
Tom2 [8k\]: :)
]
;B[nq]
;W[nr]C[larske [4k\]: l19 k19 m19
Tom2 [8k\]: yes
Tom2 [8k\]: but what is the right way?
theremin [1k\]: l19 m19
Tom2 [8k\]: thanks :)
Hikaruwaya [3k\]: is this a amateur tournament?
larske [4k\]: l19 m19 k19
theremin [1k\]: then j19
BALLZ [1d?\]: it's an open tournament...
theremin [1k\]: atari and 2 eyes
ScudRunner [5k\]: why is l19 m19 correct over l19 k19?
Hikaruwaya [3k\]: so even pros and inseis can play?
Tom2 [8k\]: thx theremin
ScudRunner [5k\]: oh, one more point...sorry
theremin [1k\]: no scud
BlackSmurf [2k\]: because if w k19, b m19 kills
]
;B[nn]C[theremin [1k\]: if L19 K19 M19 W dead
]
;W[om]
;B[oq]C[theremin [1k\]: so L19 m19 only way
katori15 [5k\]: l19 m19 k19 j19 because h19 not in atari
]
;W[op]
;B[np]C[ScudRunner [5k\]: thanks theremin 
BALLZ [1d?\]: look at table 4
theremin [1k\]: you're welcome
fakemeba [3d\]: who won mingjiu game?
Shinato [-\]: mingjiu
Tom2 [8k\]: yes, black can play m19 after white captured to make a false eye i think
]
;W[or]C[theremin [1k\]: yes tom2
Tom2 [8k\]: ^^
Tom2 [8k\]: yeah
]
;B[no]C[theremin [1k\]: ;)
Tom2 [8k\]: im not so good at L&D but started tsumego recently, i think i will become better now
BlackSmurf [2k\]: hmmm....i cout b +1.5, has he caught up or am i wrong
BlackSmurf [2k\]: ?
BlackSmurf [2k\]: *count
Ciovo [5k?\]: but it's white turn now...
BlackSmurf [2k\]: ?
]
;W[na]
;B[oa]
;W[la]
;B[id]
;W[hc]C[chrono3450 [1d\]: started tsumego at only 8k?
Tom2 [8k\]: yes :)
chrono3450 [1d\]: i started tsumego at 19k old ranks...
]
;B[ks]
;W[ls]
;B[kg]
;W[md]
;B[le]C[chrono3450 [1d\]: within a week - i went to 16k
]
;W[mf]C[Ciovo [5k?\]: i have to start too, but maybe later... :P
chrono3450 [1d\]: lol
]
;B[kh]C[Tom2 [8k\]: well, i underestimated tsumego earlier
chrono3450 [1d\]: lol
Tom2 [8k\]: i thought its not so important
Tom2 [8k\]: but
ancientOne [2d?\]: hate to break it to you, but you start tsumego when you start playing
Tom2 [8k\]: it is :)
chrono3450 [1d\]: tsumego is the most important
Tom2 [8k\]: yes :)
Tom2 [8k\]: i know now ^^
chrono3450 [1d\]: hmm
BALLZ [1d?\]: i count b 60 and w 59.5
BALLZ [1d?\]: but my couting sucks so
BALLZ [1d?\]: counting*
change: lol
Tom2 [8k\]: i just played games before
]
;W[lf]C[BALLZ [1d?\]: well, jap counting, not aga
chrono3450 [1d\]: tom - come to my demo
Cassis0 [3d\]: maybe I did 10 tsumegos in my whole life... 
BlackSmurf [2k\]: whats the difference?
BALLZ [1d?\]: i'm not sure, so i didn't count it in aga :)
BlackSmurf [2k\]: ^^
katori15 [5k\]: AGA counts stones also
BALLZ [1d?\]: but i did add the 7.5 komi if that is correct
ancientOne [2d?\]: .. you do tsumego every game you play.
Khouphrane [5d\]: wasn't B L12 strange ?
Cassis0 [3d\]: yes but only in games
ancientOne [2d?\]: whether you realize it or not
USGO3 [-\]: b hesitates
]
;B[pm]C[uuffy: lol i think we see that
katori15 [5k\]: like ● BR is 13 pts not 3
]
;W[ll]C[duanduan [5d\]: guess b didn't expect M8
AroundOneD [1d\]: b vs w = ~54 vs ~52
Ciovo [5k?\]: if black K17 later, white has to defend?
Khouphrane [5d\]: so close
uuffy: it's aga counting dude
]
;B[qs]C[Uberdude [2d\]: can anyone explain L12?
duanduan [5d\]: now w has H3 G4 to steal 1 pt from b
Uberdude [2d\]: to get get sente lose a point by threating to make 2?
AroundOneD [1d\]: l12 make j10 a zero point
Cassis0 [3d\]: h3big
Uberdude [2d\]: ah true
GeZe8 [20k\]: How much time do both players have?
duanduan [5d\]: maybe w is counting threats
]
;W[hq]C[Cassis0 [3d\]: if b h3 then he can play f2 and f1 later
ulhraiesi [15k\]: how is h3 big?
Cassis0 [3d\]: but too late.. 
]
;B[iq]
;W[gq]
;B[ps]
;W[os]C[duanduan [5d\]: w plays solid
Chris929 [14k\]: How much time do both have?
Gresil [8k\]: ul, maybe because the h6 lump is short of liberties
Uberdude [2d\]: ulhraiesi, at this stager 2 points is big
]
;B[nd]C[ulhraiesi [15k\]: right
ulhraiesi [15k\]: because the scores arent that hi
ulhraiesi [15k\]: *high
Khouphrane [5d\]: j13
]
;W[hd]
;B[he]C[Uberdude [2d\]: it means black must fill at at j4 later
]
;W[ig]C[gepay [2k\]: b e11 lloks sente to me
]
;B[if]C[Khouphrane [5d\]: f1
AroundOneD [1d\]: l11
AroundOneD [1d\]: makes 2 points
]
;W[ki]C[ketchup [5k\]: what is komi for aga? 7.5 or 8?
flyingfox [7d\]: so very close
BlackSmurf [2k\]: 7.5
ketchup [5k\]: hmm
]
;B[ga]C[ketchup [5k\]: too hard to count..
ketchup [5k\]: is it a 0.5 game hmm
AroundOneD [1d\]: k17
duanduan [5d\]: not that close
duanduan [5d\]: 3-4 pt diff
BlackSmurf [2k\]: now i count 2.5 - 3.5 for w
]
;W[fg]
;B[jc]
;W[ja]
;B[ef]C[ketchup [5k\]: k1?
]
;W[eg]
;B[dg]
;W[df]
;B[gf]
;W[eh]
;B[dh]C[scurge [4d\]: i counted +-0.5
uuffy: w+2.5
]
;W[js]
;B[is]
;W[gs]
;B[fs]C[ketchup [5k\]: w+1.5 now i think..
]
;W[fr]
;B[es]C[ulhraiesi [15k\]: I wish I could play like this
]
;W[ks]C[Jenghis [2k\]: I count black ahead by 4.5 I must not be able to count very well
scurge [4d\]: the komi is 7.5?
]
;B[jg]
;W[ih]
;B[ei]
;W[fj]
;B[nk]
;W[lg]
;B[lh]C[BALLZ [1d?\]: well, you can use SE at this stage
]
;W[kk]C[ninezero [5k\]: b wins
]
;B[jl]
;W[lk]C[Jenghis [2k\]: I don't think SE is using komi
flyingfox [7d\]: white wins...
yoyoma [1d\]: SE is broken for AGA rules
ninezero [5k\]: SE does calcuate komi i think
BALLZ [1d?\]: W+2.5
ketchup [5k\]: dame count too
uuffy: se useless
]
;B[ng]C[BALLZ [1d?\]: well, just change to jap rules,,
Blockdude [3k\]: so
]
;W[oh]C[Cassis0 [3d\]: h3 wins
Blockdude [3k\]: W+0.5
AroundOneD [1d\]: w needs g6 and b needs j4
scurge [4d\]: I count b+1.5-0.5
yoyoma [1d\]: w+2.5
Alenchon [7k\]: g6 played
uuffy: still 2.5
BALLZ [1d?\]: W+2.5 with jap rules according to SE.
USGO3 [-\]: I'm sorry the moves at the end were too fast... they are counting now
crusher15 [7k\]: f6
Blockdude [3k\]: no B+1.5 japanese rules according to SE
BALLZ [1d?\]: that's aga rules..
Musketeer [3d\]: w won by 0.5
BALLZ [1d?\]: which it does incorrectly
gepay [2k\]: w on endgame
Blockdude [3k\]: SE counts japanese
Blockdude [3k\]: not AGA
chrono3450 [1d\]: ya
crusher15 [7k\]: who wins
ketchup [5k\]: white will
chrono3450 [1d\]: they're counting
flyingfox [7d\]: should be white by .5
BALLZ [1d?\]: no, you have to change to jap for it to count japanese
Rodolphe [3d\]: whe +6
AroundOneD [1d\]: b still cannot afford komi
USGO3 [-\]: w wins
Blockdude [3k\]: no, SE only counts japanses
BALLZ [1d?\]: no...
ketchup [5k\]: yes
BALLZ [1d?\]: it doesnot
chrono3450 [1d\]: SE only counts japanese
Khouphrane [5d\]: w wins by ?
ketchup [5k\]: SE doesnt work with any other rule set
BALLZ [1d?\]: yes, but if it has AGA rules set
ketchup [5k\]: no..
BALLZ [1d?\]: it doesn't count japanese correctly
sypher [2d\]: white by 2.5
Blockdude [3k\]: it still counts japanese
ketchup [5k\]: it's still under japanese..
Blockdude [3k\]: W+0.5
BALLZ [1d?\]: yes, incorrectly
DaWarrior [2k\]: it's white who wins by 2.5 right ?
Blockdude [3k\]: no, correctly
ketchup [5k\]: probably 0.5..
BALLZ [1d?\]: you have to change it to jap rules for it to count japanese correctly
BALLZ [1d?\]: whatever
chrono3450 [1d\]: it counts japanese correctly
GeZe8 [20k\]: USGO... what is the final score?
BALLZ [1d?\]: view offline
flyingfox [7d\]: oh
USGO3 [-\]: w+2.5
BALLZ [1d?\]: change jap rules
flyingfox [7d\]: yes
BALLZ [1d?\]: check se
flyingfox [7d\]: white by 2.5
BALLZ [1d?\]: W+2.5
Ciovo [5k?\]: thanks you!!!
BALLZ [1d?\]: ..
Kael [2d\]: even with F6 forced?
USGO3 [-\]: Thank you all for watching!
chrono3450 [1d\]: look at Se yourself ballz
lemuria [2d?\]: even wms probably doesn't know what does SE show when scoring under non-japaneese rules :P
chrono3450 [1d\]: W wins by 2.5 - yet SE says B 1.5
Joungo1 [13k\]: B Win or W
BALLZ [1d?\]: can you pleas read
chrono3450 [1d\]: cause SE is counting by japanese
GoTour [4k\]: black by 1.5
Kael [2d\]: G4.. F6.. required
fairgo1 [10k\]: who won?
sypher [2d\]: take the difference in stones and multiply by 2
Joungo1 [13k\]: B+1.5
BALLZ [1d?\]: cause it counts incorrectly when another ruleset than japanese counting is set
BALLZ [1d?\]: you have to view it offline
Rodolphe [3d\]: se dont take the capturate stones on the counting system
chrono3450 [1d\]: lol
BALLZ [1d?\]: and change ruleset to japanese
BALLZ [1d?\]: then check SE
flyingfox [7d\]: people
BALLZ [1d?\]: and it will show w+2.5
flyingfox [7d\]: just count yourselves
flyingfox [7d\]: it's not that hard
lemuria [2d?\]: counting is hard and boring
flyingfox [7d\]: 5 year old can do it
Uberdude [2d\]: 1 ... 2... 3....7 ... 4
BALLZ [1d?\]: i did count manually first...
Uberdude [2d\]: doh!
lemuria [2d?\]: i have only 10 fingers
uuffy: hey at least u r only 1 off
BALLZ [1d?\]: and 10 toes
lemuria [2d?\]: still not enough
BALLZ [1d?\]: true
BALLZ [1d?\]: :(
Jenghis [2k\]: Where can I see the results from the other games
BlueMental [13k\]: how do you count half points with ten fingers?
lemuria [2d?\]: you can count binary...
BlueMental [13k\]: lol!
BlueMental [13k\]: good 1
lemuria [2d?\]: then 10 fingers are enough to count to 1024
BlueMental [13k\]: count in hex it is less confusing
tomafigury [11k\]: >< why am i counting black has 58
lemuria [2d?\]: b has to fill j4
tomafigury [11k\]: ah missed that
tomafigury [11k\]: ya i'm counting black wins weird
tomafigury [11k\]: well proves i dunno how to count aga
tomafigury [11k\]: so used to japaneese
gogadget [11k\]: b more points without komi
tomafigury [11k\]: yep forgot komi
tomafigury [11k\]: lol
tomafigury [11k\]: good job me
tomafigury [11k\]: now white wins by 2.5
tomafigury [11k\]: cya around
tvanzandt: w cannot play g4 without f6, so no need for j4
])
